Andrew Perrin, SNF-Agora professor of sociology at Johns Hopkins University, reflects on leading a high-stakes effort to redesign general education at the University of North Carolina, revealing how institutional change sparks deep and often personal disagreements about what students really need to learn. What begins as a debate over course requirements becomes a broader argument about the purpose of higher education itself. Perrin describes shifting the focus from content coverage to core capacities like asking questions, evaluating evidence, and acting on informed judgment. The conversation highlights how academic turf wars, incentives, and identity shape conflict, even among experts. Ultimately, this conversation reframes argument as a fundamental skill at the heart of education, citizenship, and public life.

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Jennifer Borda, professor of communication at the University of New Hampshire and the co-director of the Civil Discourse Lab, reflects on a family crisis that sparked a lasting insight into the nature of conflict. A painful confrontation with her father during her mother’s final days reveals how fear, grief, and loss of control often drive arguments more than the surface issue. The conversation explores the limits of language in moments of emotional intensity and the unseen forces shaping what people say. Drawing on her work in civil discourse, Borda highlights how storytelling can open space for understanding and shift deeply held positions. The episode connects personal experience to a broader framework for navigating conflict with greater awareness and empathy.

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Sarah Igo, the Andrew Jackson chair in American history at Vanderbilt University and the faculty director of Dialogue Vanderbilt, explores why some people rarely experience heated conflict and what that reveals about how we argue. Drawing on her research into privacy and public life, she makes a bold case: over time, reasoned arguments can actually reshape culture, even if the process is slow and uneven. Igo contrasts the generative disagreements of academia with the more chaotic clashes of public life, asking what we lose when arguments abandon evidence and curiosity. The conversation digs into how institutions like universities can model better discourse and why that matters now more than ever. It’s a thoughtful, quietly optimistic take on disagreement as a force for intellectual and democratic progress.

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