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In this episode of The Leadership Multiverse, Ellen is joined by special guest, Elisa Pratt to explore the leadership lessons of Katniss Everdeen from The Hunger Games.

Katniss is not a conventional leader. She doesn't seek power, status or a platform. She steps forward to protect her sister and becomes, almost against her will, a symbol of resistance, hope and disruption. That makes her a fascinating study in reluctant leadership, authenticity, personal brand and the uncomfortable politics of being turned into a figurehead.

Ellen and Elisa discuss Katniss as an imperfect but powerful leader: reactive, principled, emotionally driven, sometimes strategic, often resistant to being managed, and deeply shaped by the world around her. They consider what her story reveals about symbolic leadership, volunteer leadership, board dynamics, political performance, influence, empathy, rebellion and the limits of charisma.

Along the way, they ask whether Katniss belongs more naturally in Star Wars, Star Trek or the Avengers, whether she deserves more credit as a transformational leader, and why the messiest leaders are often the most interesting.

A thoughtful, lively conversation about the Mockingjay, leadership under pressure, and what happens when the person everyone follows never really wanted to lead.

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This week Andrew and Ellen enter Westeros to examine Daenerys Targaryen: liberator, revolutionary, symbol-maker, and ultimately a deeply dangerous leader.

They explore her journey from vulnerable exile to Mother of Dragons, asking when moral clarity becomes absolutism, when vision turns into destiny, and why charisma without accountability can become catastrophic. Along the way, they discuss trauma, founder syndrome, symbolic leadership, emotional volatility, weak systems, poor succession, and why “breaking the wheel” is not much use if you replace it with fire.

A fascinating, conflicted and occasionally scorching leadership case study. Literally.

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In this episode of Leadership Multiverse, Andrew and Ellen take on Steve Rogers, better known as Captain America, and ask whether he really deserves his reputation as one of popular culture’s clearest examples of values-based leadership under pressure.

The discussion explores his moral clarity, courage, calm crisis leadership and ability to build followership in moments of danger. It also asks harder questions about his rigidity, his difficulty with compromise, his loyalty to Bucky, the breakdown of the Avengers, and whether principled leadership can become destabilising when it leaves too little room for accountability, ambiguity and other people’s perspectives.

Along the way, Andrew and Ellen consider the Sokovia Accords, Civil War, sacrifice, emotional intelligence, operational command, and whether Steve Rogers would survive in Starfleet, Star Wars, The Boys, Game of Thrones or DC. Spoiler: Andrew remains deeply unconvinced.

A lively episode on moral leadership, wartime leadership, personal loyalty, and the difference between being worthy and being easy to work with.

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