Why would anyone choose to evade governance, and what do contemporary versions of that choice look like in the communities we serve? What familial stories do we carry forward that are, at root, an attempt to evade government?

The late James C. Scott, Yale political scientist, agrarian studies scholar, and, as he put it himself, an anarchist willing to raise only two cheers (as he titled one of his beloved books, Two Cheers for Anarchism), spent a career asking that question.

Today we explore Scott’s book The Art of Not Being Governed, which outlines an arc of our history that is, for the most part, about people who have lived outside the reach of government systems. That we have fled, adapted, and re-integrated elsewhere, partly or fully, is fundamental to our human story. These stories reveal our diversity and resilience, but also our reluctance to be made “legible” to governments.

Here with me are Dr. Mike Rowe (University of Liverpool), Dr. Tom Bryer (University of Central Florida, soon to be founding director of the Center for CivicLands and Democratic Stewardship at Old Dominion University), and Dr. Mandie Cantlin (township manager and lecturer at West Chester University).

Together we take up Scott’s larger question: why do people stay within systems of governance, and why do they leave? Drawing on examples that range from Southeast Asia to contemporary communities, the conversation moves through themes of resistance, mobility, sustainability, and public trust.

Our conversation offers many jumping-off points for deeper inquiry into how people navigate the edges of being governed. For those of us working in and around local government, Scott’s work asks us to look more closely at how people experience governance, and what it means to belong to a place.

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• 00:00 — Molokai and the choice to say no
• 05:30 — Why people stay or leave a place
• 06:30 — Scott’s work and challenging linear progress
• 09:30 — Rethinking prosperity and subsistence
• 12:00 — Why people choose not to be governed
• 13:30 — Modern examples: homeschooling and personal autonomy
• 16:30 — Diversity, identity, and “legibility”
• 18:00 — The push and pull of government in everyday life
• 20:00 — Contemporary forms of resistance
• 21:30 — Subsistence thinking in modern economies
• 23:00 — Development, sustainability, and local choice
• 24:30 — The role of government when people resist
• 26:00 — Participation, “state picking,” and civic voice
• 29:00 — Public trust and agency
• 30:00 — Ecological systems and unintended consequences
• 33:00 — Climate, risk, and the role of the state
• 37:30 — Hill people, mobility, and “flight”
• 40:00 — No single path forward
• 41:30 — Civilization, exclusion, and who belongs
• 45:30 — Living with tension in governance
• 47:30 — Closing reflections

Brandon Ford rejoins Dave Pribulka and Eden Ratliff and wastes no time stepping back into the role of host. He deftly guides the conversation from how have expectations changed for managers to something much deeper that touches on what it means to be apolitical in this new reality and how compartmentalization may or may not serve the profession going forward.

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00:00 Sports and Local Engagement

03:56 International City Management Association Insights

09:30 Expectations of Local Government

18:44 The Role of Technology in Local Governance

23:13 Navigating Civic Engagement and Emotional Appeals

25:13 The Complexity of Local Governance

28:35 Engaging the Next Generation of Managers

30:26 The Balance of Politics and Management

32:34 Compartmentalizing Personal Beliefs in Governance

36:34 The Future of Political Neutrality in Local Government

40:18 Maintaining Professional Standards Amidst Political Pressures

Who gets to decide the value of a place? In other words, who gets to decide the metric?

I brought that question to Christa Breum Amhøj, a Danish practitioner, researcher, and what I can only describe as a social architect because she reads a place the way a building architect reads a site. And to John Diamond, who sits in Manchester and has been watching the same tensions play out in the UK across decades of academic research, consultation, and engagement with emerging local government challenges. What follows is my attempt to trace the arc of what the three of us discovered together.

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• 01:39 — Opening: Who Creates Value in a Community?
• 02:23 — Competing Definitions of Public Value
• 03:38 — Rethinking Value: The Aging Society Example
• 06:22 — Tourism, Resistance, and Local Control (Scotland Case)
• 08:51 — Visible vs. Invisible Value
• 11:11 — Micro-Experiments vs. Traditional Innovation
• 14:53 — Professional Expertise vs. Local Knowledge
• 19:43 — A Place Has Agency
• 21:00 — Learning to Observe and Map a Place
• 23:27 — From Problem-Solving to System-Based Thinking
• 24:42 — Case Study: Faxe Municipality (Denmark)
• 27:00 — Redesigning the Festival Through Community Input
• 28:30 — Outcomes: Relationships, Access, and New Pathways
• 32:49 — Why Process Matters More Than Outputs
• 34:00 — Access and Infrastructure: The Transport Example
• 37:45 — The COMPASS Model Overview
• 42:30 — Managing Tension and Conflict in Co-Creation
• 44:00 — Expanding the Definition of Prosperity
• 46:30 — The Role of the Facilitator in Place-Based Work
• 53:34 — Closing Reflections: Practice Over Theory