Bestselling novelist Jane Green had it all. E18 New York Times bestsellers, over 10 million books in print, the beautiful homes, the blended family, the loving husband. And then, piece by piece, she lost most of it: the marriage, the financial security, the career status, and for a while, herself.

This week Kaye and Karen sit down with one of the original queens of chick lit for a remarkably honest conversation about menopause, the empty nest, a crumbling marriage, the shame we lock away for decades, and what it takes to find your way back. As Jane puts it: you spend so much of your life wanting to be chosen by the right people, and then you reach a point where you no longer need to be chosen and realise you're allowed to choose. It's a glorious thing.

Jane's memoir, Rewilding, is out now. Part memoir, part battle cry for any woman who's ever felt invisible in her own story, it's all about rediscovering the fearless, brave little girl you once were.

🎭 See Kaye and Karen live at the Edinburgh Fringe — 7th, 8th and 9th August. Grab your tickets here:https://tickets.gildedballoon.co.uk/event/14:7161/

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On this week's episode, Pauline Campbell got in touch herself and said she'd be a good guest. She was right. Told at 15 by a teacher she wasn't capable, Pauline believed it for years. Until she didn't. In her mid-30s she started driving between a council job and a full-time law degree, qualified as a solicitor, and hasn't stopped since. Now 61, she's a legal hero, a pro bono Windrush advocate, a published author, and the owner of an accent she refused to lose even when a judge pointed it out in court.

Pauline talks about silent strength, the parents who held back so their children could fly, why shedding your skin to fit in makes you less not more, and the erotic novel she wrote after a suave barrister told her it was always a pleasure, never a chore. Plus Karen forgets the email address. Again.

Pauline's book Lefty Lawyer: Speaking Truth to Power is out now from Waterside Press. Her memoir Rice & Peas and Fish & Chips is also available. Find out more at paulineecampbell.com.

How To Be 60 is at the Edinburgh Fringe, 7-9 August, Gilded Balloon at the Museum: https://tickets.gildedballoon.co.uk/event/14:7161/

Get in touch with your thoughts at podcast@htb60.com.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.