The college athletics arms race has created a complex financing puzzle for many institutions. That has led athletics departments to become a kind of ‘shadow university’ within their campuses, with their own systems and processes. And university leaders need to pay closer attention. For this episode, Jeff and Michael talk with Karen Weaver, an expert on the finances behind college athletics. Do colleges need a whole new board structure for sports?

0:00 - Introduction

1:35 - Why All College Leaders Should Care About College Athletics

4:14 - Introducing Our Guest, Karen Weaver

5:12 - What Are University Presidents and Board Members Missing About College Sports?

6:38 - How is the Transfer Portal Impacting Graduation Rates?

8:26 - Do Athletics Align With College Mission Statements?

9:51 - What Washington Should Do to Regulate College Sports

11:50 - What If College Sports Lost Tax-Exempt Status?

13:23 - How Women’s Sports and Olympic Sports Fit In?

16:20 - Do NCAA Classifications Work Anymore?

20:22 - Who Defines Success for College Sports?

20:53 - Is Athletics Worth It As a ‘Front Porch’ of the College?

22:08 - How Should College Athletics Be Reformed?

25:36 - The Growth of Club Sports

29:18 - Do We Know the ROI of College Athletics?

34:00 - Getting Beyond Football and Basketball

37:05 - Connecting Athletics to Work-Integrated Learning

40:05 - Why Are People ‘All In’ on College Athletics

40:59 - How Injuries Play a Role

42:48 - The Connection Between Research and Athletic Prestige

45:07 - Is a Whole New Governance Structure Needed for Athletics?

46:05 - Lightning Round with Karen Weaver

“Four quick thoughts on the Protect College Sports Act: aka a college sports bill you should actually pay attention to,” by Matt Brown in his Extra Points newsletter.

“Sport Finance: Where the Money Comes From and Where the Money Goes,” by Karen Weaver.

“Trustees and Presidents: A Podcast for University Leaders,” by Karen Weaver

“Understanding College Athletics: What Campus Leaders Need to Know About College Sports,” by Karen Weaver

“The Future of Elite Youth Sports Is Here—and It’s a Mess,” in The Wall Street Journal.

“Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World,” by David Epstein.

Most public colleges get state funding based on “seat time,” — how many students are sitting through classes. Over a decade ago, leaders at Texas State Technical College bet on an experimental funding model that ties state support to the employment outcomes of their graduates. For this episode, we hear from the architect of the unusual approach, Michael Bettersworth, the college’s vice chancellor and chief marketing officer. And Jeff and Michael explore the lessons that all types of colleges can take from rethinking funding models to better match their missions. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

0:00 - Introduction

3:49 - A College That Only Gets Paid When Students Get Jobs

6:42 - How the Unusual Funding Model Started

9:49 - How Has the Funding Model Gone?

12:05 - Voters Approve Endowment for a Technical College

13:20 - A Quest to Better Map Skills Colleges Teach to Jobs

18:52 - The Importance of ‘Occupational Identity’

21:17 - Should Other Types of Colleges Try This Funding Model?

23:40 - How Much Should Colleges Be Responsible For Student Employment Outcomes?

25:43 - How Is AI Changing the Conversation About Skills?

29:01 - Creating Incentives to Map Teaching to Jobs

31:20 - How Can We Know What Skills Are Actually Needed in Certain Jobs?

34:41 - Funding Models Should Match College Missions

39:58 - Lightning Round with Michael Bettersworth

“If—” by Rudyard Kipling

“Inventing a Job-Skills Machine,” by Rebecca Koenig in EdSurge

“Taxonomies of Human Performance,” by Edwin A. Fleishman.

“Marc Andreessen says AI layoffs are a farce: Companies are 75% overstaffed, and AI is the ‘silver bullet excuse’ to clean house,” in Fortune.