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Building Better CMOs and Marketing Leaders

Building Better CMOs and Marketing Leaders

By: MMA Global / LightningPod
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 Marketing leaders are facing constant new challenges. If you want to stay ahead of the curve, listen to Building Better CMOs, from the nonprofit thinktank MMA Global. It's a podcast about the future of marketing and how marketers can get smarter & stronger, hosted by MMA CEO Greg Stuart. Greg interviews some of the wisest and most successful CMOs in the business, who share crucial insights about what their industry gets wrong, how to get to the C-Suite, and how to unlock the true power of marketing. You'll gain a deeper understanding of the evolving purpose of marketing leaders, and learn actionable strategies to overcome obstacles. Produced by LightningPod.fm. For transcripts and more, visit bettercmos.com©️ MMA Global Economics Management Management & Leadership Marketing Marketing & Sales
Episodes
  • Embracing Measurement and Building Trust with New York Life's Amy Hu

    Embracing Measurement and Building Trust with New York Life's Amy Hu
    Apr 29 2026
    Being under the microscope during a corporate audit doesn’t have to be a source of friction for marketing leaders. Amy Hu, CMO at New York Life, argues that a foundation of curiosity and a commitment to delivering genuine value can transform these evaluations into strategic opportunities. Rather than viewing audits as a threat, she says, top-tier CMOs lean into the process to identify blind spots and refine their programs. "Any other way is going to enhance the doubt," she says. "And you are trying to say, Yeah, that's great. What can we do to satisfy what you need? And maybe there is a better way." Today on Building Better CMOs, Amy and Greg talk about her career journey as the CMO and Senior Vice President of New York Life, one of the nation's largest mutual insurance companies. She discusses how to navigate the complexities of legacy financial institutions, how to turn difficult jobs into growth and wisdom, and why CMOs need to be more adaptable to business needs. Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 1:40 The Mission of New York Life 4:10 "More Powerful, Together" 9:07 From Philosophy Major to Critical Thinker 12:32 Developing Financial Fluency 18:37 Proving Marketing Value to Skeptical CFOs 23:38 The Relationship Between Brand and Performance 29:52 Embracing an Audit and Measurement Culture 32:18 The Challenges of the Dynamic CMO Role 36:01 Hiring for Completeness and Competency Gaps 41:21 The Different Types of Marketing Leaders 45:37 Building Peer Alignment and Better Teams 49:49 The Nuance and Art of Senior Marketing Leadership Full transcript This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod Follow Building Better CMOs in your podcast app⁠⁠⁠ Rate and review the podcast Amy's LinkedIn Greg's LinkedIn
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    54 mins
  • Get Specific About Marketing Results with Matt Lieberman

    Get Specific About Marketing Results with Matt Lieberman
    Apr 15 2026
    All marketers have to find the balance between subjective feelings and objective metrics, and Cooley's Matt Lieberman is no exception. As the elite law firm's Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, and the former CMO of PwC, Matt says the professional services industry comes with unique challenges and high stakes. That means he sometimes has to challenge coworkers on the value of certain activations, or the language they use. "I joke at Cooley that one of the things that we're really good at here is using adjectives," he says. "When I say how was an event or what was a piece of content, they say it was amazing. It was awesome. It was excellent. And I don't mean to be flippant, but I was like, can you please tell me what 'amazing' or 'awesome' mean?" Today on Building Better CMOs, Matt and Greg talk about the "ongoing journey" of integrating data into a legacy business culture; how professional services firms and their partners can better communicate their value to clients; and why, in your career, "it's often good to take a step laterally down ... in order to get to the next step where you want to get to." Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 2:37 From Hollywood Creative to Business Consultant 4:53 Cooley and Law Firm Marketing 7:01 The Evolution of Professional Services Marketing 8:51 The Challenges of Marketing for Individual Partners 13:17 Turning Regulations into Client Insights 15:46 Differentiating Firm Personalities and Culture 19:53 Career Advice: Running To vs. Running From 24:43 Being a Lifelong Student in B2B Marketing 29:52 Upskilling Teams Through "Infinite Learning" 33:14 Aligning Marketing Strategy with Firm Goals 37:09 Moving Beyond Vanity Metrics 43:02 Advanced Personalization and Targeting 49:17 The Impact of AI on Marketing Full transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Building Better CMOs in your podcast app⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rate and review the podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt's LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Greg's LinkedIn
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    57 mins
  • Build Something or Fix Something with Instructure CMO Armin Molavi

    Build Something or Fix Something with Instructure CMO Armin Molavi
    Feb 4 2026
    Armin Molavi spent 20 years working in agencies before transitioning to client-side marketing at Hilton, then building a successful fractional CMO practice serving private equity-backed companies. Currently, he's the CMO at Instructure, which makes the ubiquitous learning management system Canvas."25 years of B2C, and this is my very first B2B gig, so I've been learning a lot," Armin says. "What's the saying? Like drinking from a fire hydrant?"But at a fundamental level, he explains, B2B is not so different from what he's spent most of his career doing."At the end of the day, I have to convince people that if they give up their budget for what I have to sell, it's going to make their life better at work," he adds. "That's what marketing is."Today on Building Better CMOs, Armin and Greg Stuart discuss what marketers should know about working with private equity firms, why agencies and clients both need to be better partners to each other, and the life-changing career advice he received from Kellyn Kenny. They also discuss why marketers need to drop the jargon and start connecting their work to enterprise value if they want a seat at the table. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Full transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Building Better CMOs in your podcast app⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rate and review the podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Armin's LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Greg's LinkedIn
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    59 mins
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