In the seventeenth episode, Robert and guest Adil Kabbaj, Professor of Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence at the National Institute of Statistics and Applied Economics (INSEA), Rabat, Morocco, discuss the illusory character of matter, exploring the core thesis of Kabbaj's book Science Declares the Death of Materialism: From Substantialism to Non-Substantialism. The conversation moves fluidly from the technical abstractions of Newtonian absolute space and time to the mind-bending reality that physical objects are merely a mirage of ceaseless, dynamic systems. They examine the profound historical consequences of the materialist worldview, tracing how a "dead and mechanical" perspective of the universe laid the foundation for the interconnected crises of capitalism, consumerism, and our current ecological destruction. Topics range from the plausibility of ghosts as distinct agents and the metaphysical implications of Jack Parsons's ceremonial magic to the mind's ability to survive death, and they explore concepts like the quantum vacuum acting as a cosmic dynamic memory, the urgent necessity for a global spiritual evolution of consciousness, and the potentially terrible consequences of merging quantum computing with artificial intelligence.